Interview with Peps Goh

Peps Goh is a Singaporean based actor, who works on different platforms, such as TV, film, theatre and webseries, while also working as a stunt performer. As a theatre performer he combined acrobatics and stunts in musical theatre. He is a parkour practitioner and he also runs his own fight design and fight coordination service. 

Exploration of 6 Popular Action Genres was screened at Fighting Spirit Film Festival 2020. Goh wrote, directed, starred and did the fight designing for Exploration of 6 Popular Action Genres. Goh’s film is a fifteen minute piece that explores six popular action genres in Singapore. The genres include Comedy, Sport, Heroine, Dramatic, Oriental and Crime. Each scene examines the choreography, the style of the cinematography and editing pertaining to its specified genre, showing the versatility of the action genre. 

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

Describe yourself in three fictional characters

That's a challenging question haha. I think perhaps; Ling Yao from Fullmetal Alchemist, for his air-headed and light-hearted nonsensical personality, but yet known for his martial skills.

Followed by Molly Carpenter from the Dresden Files novel series, for her rebellious teen years and eventual innate inclination to the unconventional arts and career path. All while having a very strict father, whom while he is extremely orthodox and principled hence, is as good as they come, and I suppose with that combination comes the fear of never being able to live up to the role-model ideal that our fathers are. I can only hope I can be as good a man as my dad is.

For the last one, I'll have to go with; Will Hunting from Good Will Hunting (1997), I remember really resonating with several parts of his fear of abandonment in my teen years and how he coped with it.

How did you get started in martial arts? What are the different martial arts you practice? How did you know that you wanted to make a career out of it?

My family are all avid practitioners of various martial arts, and so we were influenced and inspired to this path from a very young age. I started with Sanda when I was 5, it’s a competitive Kick-Boxing style originating from China, with elements of grappling and with that, came exposure to various traditional Chinese martial arts. In my late teens, I delved very deeply into Parkour & Free Running. After that, through my time in the industry, it gave me the opportunities to further my study into various other martial arts, like BJJ, Greco Roman, Wing Chun, Kali/Panantukan & Tricking.

As for what inspired me to try and make a career out of it, I think it was partly the good people I am surrounded with because of this line of work. I love working with them and I really indulge in the process of both designing and performing action with everyone.

And at the same time, the stunt industry in Singapore is only in its infancy, and it has much room to grow. Hence because of that, perhaps it makes me feel like I really do have something to bring to the table that hopefully audiences would enjoy, and to push the envelope on what had been done here.

How would you describe your ideal martial arts film?

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

I have conflicting views on this question. On one hand, I feel that the best action designs are those that perfectly compliments the film’s story, where the action takes a back seat to support and further the storytelling instead of being there for its own sake.

I feel that if we are able to cut out just 30 seconds of any action scene and it doesn’t affect a movie’s flow at all, then the fight design has failed. Every single moment and movement should either help you understand the various characters’ personalities and motivations better, or have lasting narrative consequence throughout the rest of the film. That would be an ideal martial arts film, where both the writing and choreography are so well married and polished that there isn’t any bit of excess.

But then again to contradict myself, I also absolutely love and enjoy watching martial arts movies that are made simply to enjoy the beauty of the martial arts and action moments.

I absolutely love the gratuitous indulgence in the style of Brad Allen’s Kingsman, the hard-hitting rampage of Scott Adkin’s Undisputed, and the satisfying massacres in Kenji Tanigaki’s Ajin: Demi-Human and in all of those films, I feel that they brought something new and never before seen in the world of action cinema. And in that massive contribution to the landscape of martial arts films, I think they have created a category of idealistic art pieces, in and of themselves.

I can only dream to have the opportunity to learn and work for them in the future in any capacity at all, I’ll die a happy man.

How did you get your start working as a stunt performer?

In my late teens, I delved very deeply into Parkour & Free Running and soon, that got me working as a Parkour coach for several years, where I got the opportunity to perform for a TV commercial. That became the gateway into the industry, where my martial arts background came in very handy as a stunt performer for TV and from there, gradually a coordinator for local dramas, commercials and theatre.

What do you see as the future of martial arts cinema?

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

I can’t speak for the whole of martial arts cinema, but for Singapore’s action cinema, there are a few things I hope for. I hope that we can pursue more ambitious original concepts and I hope to have more overseas collaborations.

And just like how Gareth Evans’ The Raid put Indonesia on the map in the action cinematic world and brought a new and fresh flavour to the table, I hope we’ll do something that’ll achieve a similar milestone like that for Singapore too.

You work in theatre and film, what are the differences between performing stunts in theatre and performing stunts in film?

Well, on screen we get to assist our performance with the camera angles and post-editing. While on stage there is only one take and one take only. So often times the pressure can be rather high, but at the same time, the choreographies are generally much much simpler. Hence it really is a push and pull. I can’t say which is harder than the other.

The other big difference is the culture of rehearsals that is only natural in theatre, while in TV, I have to fight tooth and nail to get even a day to prepare the actors.

Do you notice a difference between stunt industries in different countries, for example is there a difference between the Singaporean stunt industry and the American stunt industry?

I haven’t had the opportunity to work in the US yet. Though I guess I can compare the experience of working in Taiwan. It is surprisingly similar! We all encounter the exact challenges, for example; of not having enough time allocated to shoot the action, not having enough rehearsals to prepare the actors.

But I do feel that the average quality of stunt performers in Taiwan has a higher skill level than the average Singaporean stunt performer; that’s something I’ve been spending the past two years working to improve for the performers on my team.

What sparked your interest in acting? Who are the actors that inspire you?

I really like Joseph Gordon-Levitt’s performances in all of his roles, he is an actor that i often try to emulate, and I aspire to be as kind and generous as how Keanu Reeves is to his crew and co-actors.

But what got me into acting started more as a necessity, as stunt performers don’t get treated with much respect or opportunities in Singapore. I like to tell new stunt performers coming into the industry that over here, it’s wiser to be known as an actor who can fight, than to market yourself as a stuntman who can act. It’s a sad reality, but something we hope to change in the years to come.

But somewhere along the line, I began to fall in love with the craft. I suppose it’s natural that when you spend so much time polishing a craft, that we’ll inevitably start developing fondness for it.

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

Exploration of 6 Popular Action Genres had a video essay style, how did you decide on the format of the film?

It started with a conversation, where I was equal parts ranting and also reflecting on the projects that we had been doing for TV for the past several years, and how the fight designs and performances were often compromised by one reason or another.

Often it’s a lack of time allocation for the action segments, so we have to cut or simplify choreography. Other times it’s the lack of synergy with the directors who may not be experienced with shooting action, but are resistant to feedback.

And so I thought, well, are we simply making excuses for ourselves, or are those difficulties really as limiting as we feel they are to the end-products, and given free rein, will I actually be able to create set-pieces that we can be proud of.

We set out to reignite our passion for creating action, by exploring on one hand, the genres we had been doing for TV, and on the other, the genres we hadn’t had the chance to, but I would absolutely love to.

We attempted to not just choreograph each one to fulfil its genres, but also to shoot, edit, colour and folley, each one as faithful to each genre as we know how to. The individual scenarios of each scene is also written into the typical cliches expected from their titles as well.

As for the transition stitching, I took a leaf out of the works I do for my wife’s business, of content creation for the social media of various brands, and in those I frequently utilise creative visual transitions as well.

What were your inspirations for the different genres and are there any easter eggs audiences can look out for?

The first genre; Comedy, is intended to be something of an ease-in scene for regular audiences into this project. I feel that action-comedy is a gateway drug into becoming a fan of action in general. Having the violence kept at a family-friendly level, and played off for laughs, I was hoping it'd help to retain the gentler souls, before easing into increasingly violent genres. One of the inspirations was Umbrella Academy, not in the style of action, but more of the mood. Where they kick in relatively cheerful music to juxtapose the violence on screen. I really liked the way it feels, and tried to recreate some of that here.

In 2019 I coordinated a TV drama called Muay Thai Girl. I really enjoyed the process of creating that project. The production was the Walk & Roll Studios, also known as Butterworks, and they have such an amazing team of talented and genuine people, and that was the reason I decided to include the second genre; Sport. I really liked creating the Muay Thai matches in that drama, and I wanted to explore if it was an MMA match. And from there, I drew reference from one of my favourite movies, Gavin O'Conner's Warrior (2011). I was incredibly amazed at how he was able to present the scene to the audience and create an overwhelmingly emotional atmosphere. I feel that this movie reached the epitome of blending fight-narrative with emotional storytelling. I think there was a handful of moments in this piece where I wholesale tried to recreate from Warrior, I hope it worked at least 20% of the way there!

The third genre; Heroine, is an attempt to experiment with creating female-centric action design. Since the early Jackie Chan movies, to the rise of spunky female heroines in Korean-Drama, and to the Marvel Black Widow type characters, there has been a positive phenomenon of charismatic and hyper-competent female leads in popular media. And that's what I wanted to explore. And instead of simply having female leads fighting 'as well as men', I think the goal was to create a flavour of combat that men weren't capable of. I attempted to find a utilise traits that are unique to ladies, and capitalise on it. I think there's still a lot I need to learn in this genre, because I don't think I managed what I set out to do. Which was to present the ladies in a hard-hitting and simultaneously elegant manner, blending grace with intensity.

The fourth genre; Dramatic, was initially titled 'Hyper-Realistic'. The first piece of inspiration that sparked this genre are the Kingsman movies. We rarely got the chance to explore this kind of choreography in the local TV due to how conservative the studio can be. And as the process of choreography was almost done, RivenX3i released his ground-breaking UA:LA Pilot Episode 0 on Youtube, and it really blew me away. The way that he was able to take the framing style and energy that was previously only seen in anime, and adapt a visual technique that is extremely unique to him, by moving the camera in such creative ways was a real eye opening experience. I would describe watching that video as an actual physical experience, because the way that his directing and editing style moved me was far deeper than just visual, even thinking about it now still gives me goosebumps. And so I tried to recreate some of the energy from that into this genre. In a big way I intended this genre as a love-letter to RivenX3i for the gift he gave the world with that passion project hahaha but I don't think I succeeded with that.

The inspiration for the fifth genre; Oriental, is heavily inspired by Kung Fu Jungle. I really like Donnie Yen's approach to utilising traditional period oriental martial arts and making it palatable in a modern film setting. He took movements that were previously perceived to be impractical and only usable in wuxia films where the suspension of disbelief is higher, and he presented them much harder-hitting. And he further blended modern martial arts into them to make it easier to receive by the average audience. It's such a revolutionary approach that I'm surprised that everyone isn't attempting it too! This piece is one of my favourite genre in this project to choreograph!

The final genre; Crime, is influenced by the cop series by Donnie Yen. From Flashpoint to Special ID, those were some of my biggest sources of inspiration when I first entered the industry. And my intention was to create a scene that could push the sense of exhaustion and pain that the characters were feeling through the screens into our audiences, and it's something I hope worked for you guys! Please feel free to call me out on the moments that didn't work for you and those that did, so that I can improve my designs!

Could you talk us through how you designed each fight scene for the different genres?

In general I begin with researching martial arts and watching the movies I want to reference. I'll watch them 3 times, the first time without thinking too much, just to experience it as an audience, and making notes on which parts made me feel the feelings I want to create for my audience. After that I'll watch it the second time for the choreography, breaking it down by replaying or watching in slow-motion to identify which movements or what sequence of rhythm built up to those moments. And the final time, I'll watch them to study the way they shot and edited, taking notes on what they do and what they don't do within each genre.

After which I'll begin the design process.

Typically I'll plant three high points in a sequence, starting with one, and then building up to the climax with the second, and finally ending with the last high point. I'll decide what I would like these choreography peaks to be, which will be the skeleton structure to these sequences. From there, I'll begin filling up the meat to connect those points.

Once that's done, the first draft is completed and I'll move on to streamlining the design. That involves modifying movements so they connect smoother, and also cutting out the fat on unnecessary movements and exchanges.

Once completed, I begin to look at it from the point of view from the camera lens and the editing. Sometimes sequences feel fine in movement, but once you start to frame, you'll realise that they may be covering the action with their backs, or the choreo feels too static, hence there'll be some reblocking to increase footwork, open up spaces, and repositioning bodies to favour the camera.

At this point all these simulations are still only in my head, and hence to make it actually happen we'll have to teach and move the actors and camera through these speculated designs. Once it's in the physical world, we'll be able to identify if there are any parts that aren't feasible, be it the actor's skill level, or camera limitations to the set. Here's where the final adjustments are made.

These are pretty much my thought process for every choreography that I do.

Which one of the genres was your favourite to film?

The favourite to shoot would have to be the fourth genre; Dramatic. I really got to let loose physically, and we also really pushed the camera movements to the limits of the equipment that we had.

But for viewing experience, my favourite to watch will be the 5th; Oriental genre. The mood of that one came out differently from when I designed it, but somehow because of that I love watching it.

How did you balance all the different roles/jobs working on Exploration of 6 Popular Action Genres ?

I think what really helped was that my D.O.P Shian Wen is really amazing, and we've worked together on and off for half a decade, and have built up quite the chemistry. With him on the camera, I don't have to fret much. I'll describe the camera movement I visualised, and the effect I hoped to achieve, and he'll help me fill in all the missing bits of details and put that edge of polish on the angles with his professional experience. If it was anyone else, there's so much more added mental load in the process of directing, that I would sure to have dropped the ball on the other roles I had to juggle.

As for juggling the acting and the role as the coordinator, I think I'd for sure need help in the next time I do another Exploration project. I'd very much prefer to have someone watching the monitor if I were performing, to have the feedback loop and coaching that a coordinator provides. It'll allow me to deliver a much better performance to have that support, instead of bearing the weight of both the physical exhaustion of performing while managing the mental exhaustion that comes with running back and forth to review the playbacks, coaching the actors while holding the entire choreography from both performer's plus the camera's point-of-view in my head.

Meanwhile having the producer check in with me to make decisions on issues regarding logistics and location every so often, disrupting my train of thought during performing and coordinating was another added challenge. I had to split my brain-space into separate rooms to house each role, and flip between them or sometimes running them concurrently. At moments I felt like I was pushing compartmentalisation to a point almost akin to a dissociative personality disorder.

And as for doing the video editing, it wasn't an issue as I was already so intimately familiar with the sequences. I could remember exactly which take was the good take, and which ones where there were segments in the NG takes I could use. The process flowed so well that it felt like an out-of-body experience. But admittedly I have a lot to learn about colour grading and sound designing. Those are the elements that are frequently pointed out as the weakest links in the project.

How has your experience been with the Fighting Spirit Film Festival?

It had been such a surprise that our project made it into the festival at all, so I'm very grateful for everything! After all this project can barely be considered a short film at all. Thank you all for the opportunity to have our project be presented alongside all these amazing works!

Do you have any upcoming projects that we can look out for?

I've been back to being busy with working on coordinating and acting in local television dramas, most of which unfortunately aren't available to view across the borders. I do have a role that will be shooting in a few months, that will be on a popular international streaming platform! Stay tuned to my social media, I'll post updates on it as soon as I'm allowed to.

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

Image Courtesy of Peps Goh

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